How I Built This - Behind the Scenes of Teach Music Online
This week is a little different here on the Teach Music Online Podcast. Anamarie Sabbagh reached out to me and asked if she could interview me about the story behind Teach Music Online. It was such a joy to be able to take her (and the rest of you as you listen) through my journey becoming a piano teacher, then moving online, then teaching you all how to do the same!
Listen in to hear fun stories, amazing insights, and more as Carly gets interviewed by a TMO member of her own!
Enjoy!
Enjoy this week’s transcript!
Carly
Today's episode is so unique. I have not done one like this yet. One of my TMO members, Anamarie, reached out and she asked if she could interview me for the podcast. So the tables have turned a bit, and I got to experience what it's like being interviewed. We had so much fun talking about the Teach Music Online course and how it got started and came to be. She had expressed to me that she would love to hear my story of creating it, the hurdles, everything that comes with creating a business, an online course. And in this interview, we really do talk about some of those challenges, some setbacks, and also some unexpected rewards of creating Teach Music Online. I have to say that our discussion is very real and raw, and it's totally not scripted. So you're going to get some real answers, which I hope you're able to learn from and appreciate.
Creating the Teach Music Online membership has been the most amazing journey. I absolutely love it. And I'll also be the first to say that I have learned a lot, and I didn't expect some of those things that I've learned. So I hope that you hear that today in this episode. Thank you so much for listening. Again, we'll go ahead and jump right into this episode, the interview that I had with Anamarie.
Anamarie
So I'm turning the tables today on Carly, our illustrious leader. We were talking the other day, and I happened to join right in the beginning, I think. But so much has changed since then. And I feel like every time I tune in, there's something new that's going on. So I thought it would be fun to chat with Carly today and see how it's changed and how her original vision has maybe grown and Morris over this time.
Carly
Thanks.
Anamarie
Hi, Carly.
Carly
Thanks so much. You know, it's funny, I think back to that. That was May of 2020, right in the middle of the heaviness of the pandemic. And I remember getting on a phone call, a Q and A session with our teachers, and announcing this membership. And you raised your hand and you said, I just need to know how much to budget for this. I remember you saying that, and I thought, oh, my gosh, this is so great. She's already planning ahead. I love this person.
Anamarie
Well, I mean, from the teacher perspective, we were all thrown into a tizzy and I don't know. I mean, I guess I would have fumbled my way through if I hadn't found you, but it was so much easier to have all the resources in one place. And I'm still surprised today. I'm still hearing of teachers that just stopped teaching when everything fell apart. How did you even get started teaching online? I mean, you're such an early adopter compared to everyone else. So how did that start?
Carly
Let's see, in 2013, I was teaching in Arizona, and a couple of students that I loved working with moved to Texas. I was so sad they were leaving. And I remember seeing online teaching as an option through lessons.com, because I had a profile on there. And I remember seeing virtual lessons as an option for your profile. And I kind of was thinking, like, virtual, how in the world would that work? So when they said they were moving, I was good friends with their mom, Amanda, and I said, hey, let's just try Skype lessons. Like, I know you guys don't want to go through the hassle of finding a teacher, so let's try it. And that's how I got started. So we had our first couple of lessons, and immediately I thought it was convenient. It was so easy for them to just open their laptop and jump on a lesson with me. And I was also teaching high school choir at a charter school and running around the lessons. And so I loved their lessons because I didn't have to leave my house. It was so convenient. So within that first year, I thought, I'm going to start transferring my students online if they move, if they're traveling, if I'm sick or something. So I did that for about three years. And then when I met my husband and we got married, we decided we wanted to travel full time. And I had been teaching online for a couple of years by then. And I thought, I think I could do this while traveling. And so that's when we switched all of my students online.
Anamarie
I think that's one of the things that people have discovered now after the pandemic. People are looking for a different quality of life after all this time at home. Teaching online really facilitates a lot of things in terms of planning and scheduling. So thank you for that.
Carly
Yes, and it takes a lot of time to get into the groove of it. And in a weird way, thanks to the pandemic, teachers have had enough time to be forced into it. If you just dabble here and there, it's not very easy because you don't have the setup, you don't have the materials. You haven't fully pivoted yourself into embracing online technology. In a strange way, the pandemic has been a blessing because it's opened this new door of opportunity for teachers to travel. One of the teachers in the community just said she moved to Brazil because she's been wanting to learn Brazilian or Portuguese, and she wanted to move there. And because of online teaching, this is finally an opportunity for her to do that.
Anamarie
Oh, wow. That's amazing. Okay, so you started in 2013. Even since I've been online, I feel like the technology has changed astronomically. So tell us a little bit about what you've experienced, because even today, I have one family that online lessons are so difficult because they just have horrible Internet.
Carly
Yes. You know, I think it depends on the type of teacher you are, too. If you like to be the techie teacher with the multiple camera angles and the external microphone, that’s great. I won't promote this, but when we were in Australia, we traveled in a camper van along the coast for six weeks, and I still taught my lessons. I had all these surreal moments where my husband was out snapping pictures of kangaroos with our one year old, and I'm in the campervan with my little keyboard and using my cell phone service hotspot to my computer, my laptop. And it worked. I don't know that I would go back and do that now, but it was a blessing to see that it was possible. It is remarkable how cool lessons can be now with Classroom Maestro, a Midi connection, and with all of the apps and the games that make lessons so engaging. You kind of have the extreme on both sides.
Anamarie
You just mentioned Classroom Maestro, but I wanted to ask. What are some of your favorite things that you're using right now?
Carly
Okay, let me think about this. There are so many amazing tools. I really love the Interactive Piano Method from Carol Matz. That has been my go-to for probably 3 or 4 years now. And the reason why I like that is because I love screen sharing digital music and notating on it with the students. So that is a huge thing for students. I love that the student can get the music on their iPad and see the music on their iPad because it's all digital. I love using Notion for theory. I’ll connect my iPad to the computer, and we'll do theory lessons directly through the computer. My two favorites currently for video calling are Rock Out Loud Live and Musicology - for different reasons. Rock Out Loud Live is great for group lessons. And the audio, I think, is still unmatched anywhere else. Musicology, though, has a keyboard embedded into the screen for the students to see. So that is so helpful because you can play on your piano and they'll see the keys that you're actually playing. So for scales and chords and things like that, it's just amazing.
Anamarie
I'm writing that down.
Carly
That is great! There are so many new things coming out. And I always tell teachers that we're creating a toolbox of all of these wonderful things. And some teachers come into the program and they email me, saying, I’m so overwhelmed. I don't know how to implement all this. And I tell them, slow down. You're not supposed to. Like, we're not supposed to flip your studio upside down. We're supposed to tweak it and pivot and match the needs of the students with amazing tools. And in the future, when you get an adult student, you can refer back to the course and say, oh, yeah, I learned that one skill that this adult needs or that this student with special needs might need. I learned how to compose music because of that workshop we did. And now I have a student that wants some of my music that I can compose for them. So I think teachers are just go-getters and we want to be amazing, but we can't do it all at once. And that's why it's nice having this community and course where you can incrementally get a little better.
Anamarie
Okay, so speaking of the course, again, from the time that I started, it has changed so much. So let me ask you, when you first started out, what did you envision that this was going to be?
Carly
That’s a funny question, because I have been so open to creating exactly what teachers need. So I don't even know that I knew. I knew at the time that I had dozens of questions about different topics, like how to use cameras, how to use interactive materials, and how to be engaging with beginner students. What I love, Anamarie, is I love creating content that helps teachers. I love getting messages and comments saying, ‘I had a lightbulb moment.’ ‘Oh, my goodness. I did not know that's how it works.’ ‘This is so much easier than I thought before.’ And that happens almost daily.
But let me back up. Originally, my message was ‘How to Pivot your Studio Online and Teach Online’. That's what I created in 2019. So in the spring of 2020, when we had this worldwide pandemic hit, it was already there. It was like the exact little package of videos needed for teachers. Well, thanks to the pandemic, everyone knows a lot of those things. There are still some things in there that are helpful, but most teachers are comfortable online. Most. So now it's marketing, it's social media, it's how to be engaging with beginner students. It's method books. And so as these questions roll in, I am writing them all down and creating new courses. We just created a brand new course called the Studio Website Builder. Because teachers keep sending emails and messages asking for help with their website. Asking, can you get on a call with me? And I was happy to, but I thought if they have this question, all of the other teachers do as well. And so then I go and do all of the research outside of what I already know and find out what's working for everyone else, then packaging it into something that's understandable for teachers.
Anamarie
Okay, so in other words, you're just responding as questions come. But if you had to think like, how would you like this to grow? What sort of things have you envisioned for your grand scheme?
Carly
I love that thought. I imagine so much for the community I want to create. I'm really thinking of Teach Music Online as a business course for musicians, whether they're teaching online, building a studio, or whether they're doing other things. But as musicians, we need help with our business. We need help with the legal things, we need help with the marketing, with the branding, with the website, with the social media. So the overarching idea is that it's a business school for musicians and music teachers, because we don't get a lot of that at universities, at least not as modern as it can be through an online course. And then the community aspect is collaborations, connecting with teachers that are like-minded so that we feel supported and loved. And then on top of that, we will be doing conferences. I’m looking forward to doing in-person conferences where we can meet together, collaborate, connect, and make these friendships. And then the next level are service trips. I really want to do service trips with musicians where we can go travel to Mexico and help build a school or help teach in an orphanage and take our music, our skills with music to the world in really unique ways.
I have such a passion for service. I lived in India for a summer in Leprosy colonies, and I lived in China for eleven months and taught at boarding schools. This is all before getting married. And then I was in Fiji and Belize and Tonga different times of the year doing service. And so I think there could be a really beautiful connection between our passion for teaching and really bringing that into the music community as well. So that will be maybe a package or an option that I offer to members in the future.
Anamarie
How do you balance it all? I'm here and I have 50 students, and I always feel like I have a hard time catching up between managing the studio, managing the student's needs, managing the parents, crazy expectations sometimes. How are you putting that all in its place and keeping order of everything?
Carly
Yeah, I heard recently that there's no such thing as work-life balance. That was really helpful for me to hear that it’s okay that I have chosen this, because I have many passions, and it's okay to have passions and to be working while raising my three daughters. It's a beautiful thing that I can be on my phone at the playground with them, answering emails, but I'm with them and I'm there and I'm present, even though I still have a little bit of work to do. I can manage both at the same time.
I have time management systems in place that are so helpful. I basically divide all of my tasks into buckets and give them a day of the week. And so podcast interviews are always on one day of the week. My partnerships that I'm working on, my email campaigns, marketing, things like that are all on different days. So that when I do those tasks, I can really zero in and focus. If we don't have systems like that set up, we just feel crazy. I mean, you could sit down and see this long list and go, I can't even be productive when you're just putting out fires.
So I think it is a lot of time management and figuring that out, but it's a process. I'm still in the middle of figuring it out. And new things are happening, and I have new ideas all the time. I'm building a brand-new course right now that I could easily spend 40 hours a week on, but I can't necessarily. So I figure out how to do it in less time. I lower my expectations. Sometimes I get things out faster than I originally planned to, but that's okay.
Anamarie
You just spoke of partnerships. Let me ask you, who else do you admire in the community? Who else do you think is doing a great job?
Carly
Oh, that is such a good question. Carol Matz, I could go on and on about her. She has been somewhat of a mentor for me. She and I, when the pandemic hit, we partnered together to create a free gift for teachers. It was a download from her of free music you could use with your students online. And then my mini course that I was providing for teachers. So we've kind of followed each other through this and promoted one another and done webinars together. I think she's just so amazing. She's so giving to teachers, and she has just the biggest heart. And she's also, at the same time, very blunt and honest and genuine. So I love that mix. Tim Toppam and I have done some things together. He actually interviewed me right as the pandemic hit. I flew home from Thailand, because I was in Thailand when we launched the course. And he interviewed me for his podcast. And a lot of teachers found me through that podcast because he wanted more online teaching resources for his network of teachers as well. And I love everything that he puts out. I think he's also very genuine.
Mike Grande with Rock Out Loud has been so present there for teachers, Sara Campbell and all she's doing for social media and marketing for teachers, branding. She's also just giving and creating such great, valuable resources from a personal level. I think those are the influencers and the teachers, I guess, in the industry that I love are those that I see. I know the work they're putting in. I know the behind the scenes, and I know it's not easy to create at all.
Anamarie
You said that you're working on a new course. Can you share a little bit about that or is it like top secret?
Carly
No, I'd love to. So I think I announced it a couple of weeks ago in one of the podcast episodes. So some teachers may know about it, but it's a Course Creator for musicians. This is a course all about how to build courses and that's for musicians, for anybody who wants to create and sell a music course for passive income. And it's from beginning to end. I am working on the middle of the course right now, but basically the first module goes through how to think of an idea, how to validate that idea, and then how you get all of your messaging for your marketing. For example, getting on calls with clients and things like that to help you think of the idea and build your outline for a course. And then I walk you through production–How to film, how to script, how to outline, and then how to host, where to put it online, and then how to sell and market. So again, I had been getting a lot of questions and emails from people not just in Teach Music Online, but also outside of the membership wondering about how to build a course, and where to host it. Wondering if it was a good idea, how to find people that are interested, or what to charge. So answering all of those questions and really taking musicians through step-by-step how to do that.
Anamarie
So aside from the initial course that you did before, what are some of the things that you have learned with this latest venture that have made a difference in how you're moving forward?
Carly
I just value the community and the needs of those in the community. Anyone who's trying to build a product can thrive when they listen and respond. I don't know if I do that perfectly, but I'm certainly trying. Inside our Mighty Networks forum for teachers, we have teachers every day in there asking questions, needing help, needing support. And I've really shifted from thinking that I know what they need, because it’s what I needed, to looking at what teachers are asking for and shifting my mindset to helping those people. Because if I can help them, there's likely 220 other teachers that need that as well. So yeah, I think it's a shift in mindset from responding versus just like creating what you think will work.
Anamarie
I think another important part of that is that as you have moved forward, you've chosen some people to help you answer questions. People get scared when they have a new idea. They're like, oh, it's my idea. And I can't share it because someone's going to steal it. So if you could talk a little bit about that and why that trust is important and how it's helped you grow.
Carly
Yes. You know, when I first was building the Teach Music Online community, one of my mentors said, in the beginning, it's going to be a lot of you, and as you build it, it's going to be a lot of other people stepping in for you. And I thought that would be amazing because I don't have enough time to answer all these questions. And Anamarie, you and Brooke were some of those angels in my life a year ago, or nine months ago, when I had Becca and I reached out to both of you and said, hey, I'm going to go on maternity leave. Can you help me out in the community and answer questions when you see them come up? And it's really, truly been amazing to see how teachers have started responding. Before I can get to it, they're there helping each other. Even I have had teachers say to one another, ‘Hey, are you free? I'll get on a Zoom call with you to answer your question’. And you know what? I think this is it. We feel good and joy comes into our hearts and our lives when we're helping others and when we're serving.
When you're in a network of people that are your friends, you just genuinely want to help them. It doesn't feel like, oh, I have to answer this other question. It's more a feeling of realizing that someone needs your help and you have the answer. It's been a really beautiful and amazing thing to watch with you. And there are probably a dozen other teachers inside the community that are so excited and interested in being that person to really help others. It wouldn't exist today without that community. I think it would be a very different feeling if it was just me dishing out, because I don't know everything.
Anamarie
I was thinking about that. And I've always believed it, that you put it down and I pick it up. It's no problem. But when did you first realize that this was going to work, and that it was going to be bigger than you had originally thought?
Carly
It was in the fall of 2019 when I first realized that this was going to work. I had started a Facebook group just to validate the idea. I told Mike that I had this idea in the morning, and by noon, I had started the Facebook group and started outlining my mini course. That's how quickly I moved through it. We had 500 teachers join the Facebook group in a week.
Anamarie
Oh, wow.
Carly
Yeah. And that's when I was like, okay, that's all I needed. That's all I needed to know that there is a very big need for treasury measurement. Yeah. And then when it was much bigger, I think it was even before the pandemic, I had around 900 or so teachers on my email list. And I realized that it was already growing. And there were a lot in our group, like Richard Bosworth, that purchased the course before the pandemic. He already was ahead of the game going, yeah, I need to learn how to teach online, this is my thing. There are probably 20 teachers in our community that have been a part of everything pre-pandemic. So even before it, I knew that this was something completely brand new. My husband was calling it Blue Ocean, this Blue Ocean idea, which means there's nothing out there available with this kind of training. And there really wasn't.
Anamarie
So how many people do you have now on your mailing list?
Carly
It's more than 15,000, I think. And last I looked, our Facebook group has about 9000 teachers. We have such a large community and it’s so great. I’ve noticed too, through the podcast, that people are still learning so much. A lot of teachers, it’s not right time for them to join the membership and the course, and that's completely fine. I think they'll know when they're ready for that extra step. But in the meantime, there is so much with the podcast, the Facebook Group, the website, and the free webinars, because I want everyone to partake. I want everyone to get the support they need to have success.
Anamarie
What is the most long-distance email you’ve gotten from someone saying, ‘Hey, I heard of you on this website’ or ‘Hey, I heard about this course’ or ‘I saw your Facebook group’ that you kind just went, ‘What?!’
Carly
Oh, you know, we had a teacher join us in the summer that's in Madagascar. We have a few in Africa. We have a few that are in Israel. Yeah. I mean, all over. I remember one joining from France and getting the longest email of gratitude saying, ‘I needed this’. Oh, more recently, we have Mikaela in our group, she is in Ireland. And she reached out and said she found me through an ad and said, ‘I want to be the most successful online teacher in my country doing this, because it's not as well known. It's not as common there, at least.’ And I thought, that is exactly the motivation I want to give teachers is, they're not just going to do this. They're going to do it and create the income of their dreams, create the flexibility that they need to be able to travel or visit family, and teach quality students. All of these dreams and visions we have as teachers that feel unattainable aren't unattainable anymore. They're completely within our reach. We need a roadmap. But I understand the frustration of not having that because that was me for eight years figuring out what the road map was to having success with it.
Anamarie
So you mentioned something about service earlier, and I often think about how I would make that happen and not even so far away. But like here in my community, I live in the Metro Detroit area, and we have Detroit, of course, but then I also have an area north of us which is called Pontiac, and both of those urban areas could use outreach. And so I'm wondering how to get music supplied? I now have a stack of old music books because I keep telling my kids, don't throw them away, I'm going to use them one day. How do you see something like that locally unfolding? And do you think that an online format would also work?
Carly
Yes. Oh, you're giving me great ideas. That's why I love you. You always have great ideas. Working with local communities. I've seen a lot of teachers that say we donate 5% of our lesson income to this charity in our community or this nonprofit. I think that's a really simple way to start. It's a very hands-off approach by saying we're going to donate this amount. And it's just a mental thing that helps parents when they're giving their lesson income to know they're giving back because they don't always have time to go and serve at a nonprofit. I think what I would do is look for nonprofits in the area that help underprivileged kids. There are so many after-school programs. There are actually some music programs that are built for that, to go into schools that don't have a music program and provide music lessons. My brain always starts running. I could find College students who want experience teaching and some credit hours or something and maybe teach them how to teach and take them with me to go teach some lessons. You have a lot of music ed programs at colleges where you could probably find some great candidates for helping you build something.
Anamarie
Speaking of that, you at one time had spoken with me about the idea of having, like, a TMO group of teachers that you would refer to. Do you think about that still, or is that sort of gone-by-the-wayside because there's so many other things happening?
Carly
That's exactly why I created the Pro Teacher Directory and the certification within the course. So for those listening that aren't inside the program, we have the Pro Online Teacher Certification, and it basically takes you through a number of milestones that you need to hit. That certification really tells me that you have the set up, you have experience, you have the confidence to get a lot of new online students. And so when teachers finish that certification, they get added to the directory, which is on my website. So I get referrals that come through the website for these teachers. In the future, if I could have a team of people helping me, which I'm working on, I would love it. It would be nice to create some kind of a referral center where students can come to me and I help them get connected with the right teacher, the right fit. It's a type of version of that right now where obviously I'm not taking any kind of cut, I'm just taking the student and handing them to the teacher. But it definitely could be a bigger thing. When I very first started teaching music online, that was actually one of our first ideas was to create a directory, a directory of online teachers where we could be the connecting point for students to teacher.
Anamarie
So do you get a lot of inquiries through your website for that, or not as much anymore that you're focusing more on teacher education?
Carly
Yes and no, because I have the directory there so they can actually find it themselves. So they don't come through me as much because they're going to the directory. But I probably get emails once a week asking for me to find teachers and I send them to the directory. So they find me on the website and they think, oh, I need a teacher. I'll reach out, and then that's where I link them over to the directory. So it's two-fold, it's already there, and it's indexed in Google. So if someone is searching for a teacher, they can land on that page.
Anamarie
I guess one of my last questions is, how far do you go into a new service or product before you realize that it’s not going to work. Because me personally, I have a lot of fear of missing out going on. Like, oh, there's this new thing and I should check it out and it's online.
Carly
Sure. Are you referring to teaching materials or running your business or anything?
Anamarie
I think it's more teaching materials because I feel like every day I get a new offer, a new product, a new thing, and I'm totally overwhelmed.
Carly
I think when there's a need, you fill it. And if what's working for you is working, we don't need to run out and try ten new apps. But if you have a student that's really having trouble remembering notes or learning notes on the staff, we need a solution. We need to try Piano Maestro or Music Flash Class or a little game or something. And so I think teachers too often get caught up in Flashy Object Syndrome, where we're like, there's something there that looks so wonderful, amazing. So if you have the time to, you can explore, but we don't need to fix what's not broken. We don't need to try to reinvent something when something is already working. Which is why I love our twice-monthly events in TMO. I love it because it's where you get to hear ideas and hear why it's working for that teacher. It's not an ad. It's not an email you get from the company trying to sell it to you. It's the actual teacher using it. And that's when you go, oh, I have a student like that. That's exactly what I need. Versus, like, okay, here's a list of 20 things I need to figure out.
Anamarie
That is a very good point. And I do use that resource a lot. Like, in the group. I will say, hey, does anybody know about this? And a lot of times I get really good feedback.
Carly
Yeah. Or you get the feedback that is like, no, it was broken for me. You get the honest truth about things that may seem really great, but that are just maybe a little hard or they still need some work, right? Yeah. But I completely understand the sentiment of, like, wanting to provide your students with an amazing experience. So what else is out there that we can give to them? But, yeah, it is definitely a balance. I would say winter break or spring break or summer break are good times for you to search and listen and try some things, but to not feel the overwhelm that you need everything.
Anamarie
I wanted to see if you have any closing words or any pieces of advice to share.
Carly
Well, thank you so much for just letting me share. It's really fun for me to share this experience. It has just turned into, like, just the most remarkable thing. I get emotional. Gosh, I'm so sorry. But just like, the best friendships have come from this. And I have felt so inspired, maybe a strong word, but truly inspired to create things that would help teachers feel relief from the stress and the overwhelm. And that's my goal is to help teachers reach their goals. I just had a teacher email me who said, I just moved. My husband had a stroke. I am the breadwinner now. Tell me what to do. And it's like, my heart just breaks for circumstances and situations that teachers are in. And I hope that some of the resources from the podcast and from our courses will bring that clarity and guidance needed to find success, because we all need that. We don't want to be isolated trying to figure this out for ourselves. So thank you, Anamarie, for being such a great member of our community and so helpful and so supportive.
Anamarie
But honestly, thank you. I know you said that people were jumping online, but you were like a lifeline when everything fell apart because you just helped me create a direct path. There was so much noise, so many things going on and so it was in this time of all this chaos and I really felt like I was treading water, just trying to be with my students and be there for them and keep them happy. All of a sudden I found a way to do it better and to really feel like I was delivering a quality product. Thank you so much for sharing yourself so effortlessly with all of us and being willing to be a sounding board or talk through things or just so available when you have your own life and your own kids and your own things to do. It's really been a gift. So thank you.
Carly
Thanks, Anamarie.
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